About the Author

Felicia A. Williams is a freelance writer and blogger. She spends her time raising her family and writing. In addition to being the Insurance Feature Writer at Suite 101 and freelancing wherever she can, Felicia spends her time tinkering around with her sites, Tidbits and Stuff (a site full of useless and useful information), BLULOW, (all about living green) and Visit Hudson Valley.

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Open Post for Demand Studio Editors

May 31st, 2009 • Related • Filed Under

Recently I was contacted by a writer for a rather popular magazine and was interviewed about my experience with Demand Studios. I won’t mention the magazine as I’m not sure if my comments will be included in the final piece (If it is, I’ll post the link here). The interview gave me the idea for this post.

I felt it fair to create an open post for Demand Studio editors. There’s been lots of comment activity from freelance writers for Demand Studios, but the editors have not been represented. Some writers are very happy and others, including myself, express frustration at the editing process. I would love to hear from a few of the Demand Studio editors.

Writer Frustration

From my own experience, my frustration with Demand Studios stems from two areas:

Some of the editors appear to be unfamiliar with the article subject matter. As a result, they request rewrites that would not be necessary if there was a familiarity with the topic.

On many occasions there are conflicting edit requests. Sometimes there’s a direct conflict with the Demand Studio writers guidelines and other times the rewrite requests contradict instructions required by another editor. Not being totally sure which editor will receive the article, Demand Studio writers sometimes feel it’s a crapshoot whether or not their work will be approved when they click the ‘Submit’ button.

Open Communication with Demand Studios

In an attempt to keep this post open and non accusatory, I won’t go into things such as edit review time, title availability and other issues that can crop up from time to time with any freelance writing arrangement. After all, we’ve all had to deal with software glitches and fluctuations in work load.

I believe the major frustration (and if I’m wrong, my readers will correct me), is that the editing process leaves many Demand Studio writers scratching their heads wondering if some of the editors are fully familiar with the writer guidelines and wondering why there is such a lack of uniformity when it comes to article rewrite requests.

Demand Studios Freelance Writer Cattle Call

I’ve noted that Demand Studios frequently post ads looking for freelance writers. It seems to me that if the communication or ‘training’ so to speak between the current editors and writers were better, more freelance writers would stay and the need for new writers would diminish.

In today’s economy, writers are looking to remain loyal to paying customers. I think a few tweaks here and there would help to develop a long lasting mutually profitable relationship between Demand Studios and their existing freelance writers and editors. Frustration with Demand Studios

Comment Invitation

I look forward to input from Demand Studio editors and writers. I know some writers are very passionate about their dealings with Demand Studios and I ask those writers to use their stellar writing skills to convey the point without allowing too much venom to spew forth.

There Are 127 Responses So Far. »

Comment by Cassie Tuttle (26 comments.) on 1 June 2009:

I’m familiar with Demand Studios but have no first-hand experience with them.

Given the various concerns about DS’s editors (and being a freelance copyeditor myself), I was curious about their process. So I took a look at their Web site.

I have just applied to join their copyediting staff. If they accept my application, I’ll report back and let you know my impressions.
Comment by Felicia on 1 June 2009:

Thanks for taking on the task Cassie.

I hope your application gets approved.
Comment by Gabrielle (1 comments.) on 2 June 2009:

I’m about to submit my first article, I’m looking forward to what happens. I tend to be a skeptic, so until proven otherwise, I will not expect much.
Comment by Eve Lopez (22 comments.) on 2 June 2009:

I just started writing for Demand Studios last week, so I’m not sure I’m the best judge. The rewrite requests I’ve received from the copy editors have all been for valid reasons. The tone of the requests, however, has run the spectrum from one angry copy editor who left feedback that included THE DREADED SHOUTED REQUESTS, to the recent copy editor who thanked me for my hard work while gently explaining what I did wrong.

I think it really depends on which copy editor you get. As a former copy editor, I totally understand the frustrations that editors go through, and am humbled by this experience. I myself have been guilty of providing feedback that included ALL CAPS, and I now understand that from a writer’s point of view, this is really unprofessional.
Comment by Lovelyn (7 comments.) on 3 June 2009:

I wrote for demand studios for a couple of years and as time passed my experience has become more and more frustrating. It does depend on which editor you get, but I think that a symptom of the problem. There’s no continuity. How can I be expected to change my article to suit them if the editors don’t even agree on what needs to be changed?
Comment by Melissa on 12 June 2009:

I’ve been writing for Demand Studios for just under a month with fairly good success. I don’t get too many rewrites, and the few that I’ve received have been very logical and minor requests. However, there have been a couple of rewrites that I File-13′d because the title could have been interpreted two different ways, and obviously the editor had something else in mind than what I wrote about. This is just my personal experience.

I think that working with such a large group of writers and editors poses big problems because there simply is no way to make a uniform communication to everyone and see that they adhere to it. If I didn’t check the forum, I wouldn’t even know of some of the very important changes that go on from day to day. I can imagine that most of the people who write or edit for DS don’t know either, and this keeps them out of the loop. Many people just don’t have time to check forums.

As a result, people are going to come and go because they end up losing the plot on DS. The communication between DS and writers and editors needs some serious work. Just my two cents.
Comment by Angela (1 comments.) on 14 June 2009:

Thanks for this forum. I hope someone from Demand Studios actually sees this because there is something I wish I could tell them and new writers. I haven’t been writing for them for very long, but they do not place the individual writer’s guidelines for the different styles in a place that they can be found. They send initial guidelines – AP guidelines – but, you don’t see the individual style guidelines until you are well into uploading your article.

It took me about 2 weeks to figure this out. When they said “guidelines” I naturally assumed they were referring to the guidelines they sent me in the welcome e-mail. I would have had a much easier time of it and so would the editors if I had been told that there were *more* guidelines and where to find them.

They need to place the individual guidelines for About.com and Ehow.com articles in a logical place.

Maybe I missed something. They’re lucky I’m posting this much about it because it’s not my job to fix their company’s problems. But, this information may help new Demand Studios writers. There are actually a few sets of guidelines.

That said, I’ve also thought that they have a problem with uninformed editors. Some of them are very good. The problem may be that Demand Studios has thrown together under “Health” both allopathic medical and alternative medical topics. I think that there are some editors there who do not understand the difference. Of course, they are two completely different world views, diametrically opposed to one another. I write on alternative subjects and one of them sent one of my articles back for a rewrite and referred to it as a “medical” article – it wasn’t. I did scratch my head for a second, then I pulled the article and did something else with it because, as it was, I knew it was a marketable article.

Overall, they are okay to write for, but they do seem to have some kind of organizational problems. I think it would be good for the company to identify the kinks and get them ironed out and that would be better for everyone – including writers. I certainly do appreciate the opportunity that they have presented. I’d just like to see it made even better than it is.

– Angela
Comment by Felicia on 14 June 2009:

Thanks Angela. Very well said. I believe your comment will help other Demand Studio writers.
Comment by Cassie Tuttle (26 comments.) on 14 June 2009:

If you’re having satisfactory results with Demand Studios, then more power to you.

I am a copyeditor and proofreader with 26 years’ experience, but for some reason (which DS did not indicate), I don’t meet their qualifications. DS denied my application to work for them as a copyeditor.

I would be very cautious and extremely alert if I were a writer submitting articles to Demand Studios. Just my personal opinion.

Cassie
Cassie Tuttle´s last blog ..Rules of Grammar: How Egregious?
Comment by Robert (1 comments.) on 14 June 2009:

In agreement with this post.

I found that some of the editors in the section on electronics had no idea what a schematic was.If you do not have the basic knowledge of a subject, you should not try to edit it.

The Demand Studio\’s editors need some training in the basics of the subject they are trying to edit.

I feel this is why freelance writers leave. One editor says to edit one way, another editor says something else. There is no consistency.
Comment by Melissa on 14 June 2009:

Piggybacking onto what Angela noted about the various styles … I started in news. My writing is firmly AP styled. Yet when I read over my published articles, I’ve noticed that the AP style has been superseded by some of the editors. It’s closer to the legal style of writing, with which I’m also familiar, but there seems to be no uniformity in application.

So I’m confused as to what style I should be using –?

Perhaps DS should develop its own style book.
Comment by Cheryl (1 comments.) on 18 June 2009:

Angela, it wasn’t clear from your post where one accesses the individual style guidelines. Can they be accessed before you start writing an article? Thanks for any information you have.
Comment by Ken on 18 June 2009:

As a veteran of copy-editing exactly 4 articles for DS, you can take my comments as less than gospel. Here’s what I’ve observed already: Some writers clearly know their subject (How-to only, so far) well enough to write with authority. It’s a pleasure to work on those articles, because my job involves mainly minor mechanical tweaks. Then there are the writers who seem to have chosen a subject only to pick up a quick fifteen bucks. Their manuscripts are replete with factual errors and omissions, to the point where I have no choice but to send them back for rewriting. That gives me no pleasure, as we’re all part of the same community and I don’t want to take bread off someone’s table. But DS hired me to maintain a level of quality in what they publish.
What I’m saying is that some folks are writers, and others aren’t and probably never will be.
Comment by Felicia on 18 June 2009:

Ken, thanks for coming back to share your experiences so far as a copy editor for Demand Studios.
Comment by Lisa R (11 comments.) on 21 June 2009:

In the input screen, right at the top near the title, there’s a link to the style guide for the article you’re writing- and I have each style saved to my desktop folder in the event that I need to write offline.

yes the editors are totally inconsistent. You can always appeal a rewrite before you send it in by emailing it to Richard. I’ve done that before, usually they are offering good insight from a fresh set of eyes. I write about 30 DS articles each week and I totally appreciate the fresh set of eyes. Some of them, however are just plain jerks. There’s one who edits my tax & law articles, you’d think he was a supreme court judge or something. I don’t even bother his rewrites, I can tell from his tone that it’s the same person, shouting and criticizing. Because of the niche, I’ve been able to sell the articles he’s rejecting for more than DS would have paid me anyway.
Lisa R´s last blog ..The Sparkling Martins
Comment by Sarah on 4 July 2009:

I’ve also just recently started as a copy editor for Demand Studios. I’m going to agree with Ken on pretty much everything there. There are styles to adhere to, but as a copy editor at DS, you’re tossed into the fray with little guidance and instruction. This would be OK if everything was uniform. Sadly, there are just too many writers who aren’t writers. I learn fast, but I’ll definitely need to find my groove before I’m cranking out articles like I can/should be. For every publication, there are things other than style that you need to learn and get use to. There’s always some learning curve. I honestly think (from my whole two days of navigating the system) that another level of editor (such as a “news editor” or a “content editor”) would make a world of difference. That way, copy editors would be able to get through articles faster, and consistency would probably level out.
Comment by Felicia on 4 July 2009:

Thanks Sarah for your comment and insight into the Demand Studios editing process.

It seems that the writers and editors are facing similar challenges. I’ll keep that in mind for the next time I receive an editorial change to one of my articles.
Comment by Erika (2 comments.) on 16 July 2009:

Hi, just recently, I heard about Demand Studios and thought about giving it a try. I currently work as a part-time publicist, creator/editor-in-chief for experimental website, Sharp Objex, volunteer for a mainstream media online magazine and am also a freelance writer. I do a lot of work, but still have time to do other things here and there. Once I heard about Demand Studios, I knew I had to apply for the copy-editing job (I write too many freelance articles as is, so this was out of the question). I was just about to apply when I read through blog and was a little surprised by some of these responses. But as discouraging as it seems, I think I’m still going to apply. Once I do, and I have a good understanding of the job, I’ll let you know how it goes. Wish me luck!
Comment by Erika (2 comments.) on 16 July 2009:

Well, this is disappointing considering I just left a message, but apparently I can’t apply for a copy-editing job. I didn’t know that this is only open to American citizens. I wonder why? I’m from Canada, so it’s not like I’m that far away. Had no idea Demand Studios was so exclusive.
Comment by Jan on 22 July 2009:

I have been writing on and off for Demand Studios and I have received rude comments from the editor and I don’t even know who is editing the work. I never had any rejected articles until I posted my picture. Now in one week 2 articles have been sent for re-write then rejected, wasting about 3 hours of my time, per article, and not being compensated. It is a waste of time with no accountability from the “ghost” editor. I have since removed my photo and am looking for a way better job. I have a degree and I don’t like being made to feel dumb by people with no accountability and without knowing who is judging you and with no chance for rebuttal.

(Edited 7/23/09)
Comment by Ken on 23 July 2009:

Well, Jan, if the seven errors in your post are an indication, maybe the editors are trying to tell you something. That doesn’t excuse rudeness, but–geez, if you’re going to write about editors, proofread before posting!
Comment by Felicia on 23 July 2009:

Thanks for the wake up call Jan and Ken.

I’ve been toying around with adding a plugin that allows folks to edit their comments. After reading your comment Ken, I decided to get off my duff and install it.

Jan, I apologize for not editing your comments prior to approval, but sometimes I scan comments to ensure they’re not spam, offensive or filled with HTML code (for some reason some comments come through filled with HTML coding that I’ve got to edit prior to approval). Since your post didn’t have any of the above, I approved it. Unfortunately, I didn’t take the time to correct grammatical or spelling errors.

As freelance writers, I’m sure we have all made a few spelling and grammatical mistakes that we wish we could correct. To make it a little easier I installed a plugin that provides a small window of time to correct comment errors.

One more motherly word of advice: For lengthy comments, I find it helpful to compose my comment in a word processing software that will correct my blatant spelling/grammatical errors. I then copy and paste it into the blog’s comment box. It’s not fool proof, but it does help to cut down on some of the errors.
Comment by Cassie Tuttle (26 comments.) on 23 July 2009:

Jan, I am a freelance copyeditor (not with DS), and I’ve been following this post since it was started.

While I understand the frustration Demand Studio writers are experiencing, if your post here is any indication of the work you submitted to DS, I can also understand the frustration the copyeditors must have felt when working on your articles. Still, I agree with Ken: there is no excuse for rudeness.

However, Jan, in your 6-line post complaining about editors, I found at least 15 errors (spelling, grammar, usage). Proofreading is so important.

Felicia – thanks for adding the edit function. Everyone makes mistakes, and it’s nice to have the option to correct the ones we find (even after proofreading).
Cassie Tuttle´s last blog ..Is Grammar Correction a Crime?
Comment by Susan on 30 July 2009:

I’m a DS copy editor and find that the writing is uneven. Some folks are great. Others? Well, let’s just say they could stand to listen to the editors. I’m quite satisfied. I make about $1000 a week as a CE on DS and still have time to index books. However, I am a workaholic. I’m also quick at what I do. (25 years in the business….)
Comment by Wendy (30 comments.) on 30 July 2009:

Susan and other copy editors at Demand Studios:

I am curious about how you feel about the anonymity of the editor/writer relationship…especially because it is (to my mind)a one way relationship: you see our picture, bio, name, etc…but we do not have the same insight into who you are.

To me, this sets up a difficult dynamic. I have been on both sides, and I always see the relationship as collaboration. To me, the organizational structure at Demand Studios feels hierarchical.

I’m curious about your thoughts on this.

Wendy
Wendy´s last blog ..Another day, another…
Comment by Bob on 30 July 2009:

Sorry that Therese finds the copy editing at DS so unsatisfactory. Please understand that DS articles should be written in such a way that a non-expert in the subject — even one laboring under the handicap of having only a lowly bachelor’s degree from some unheard-of college — can understand them. This doesn’t always happen. I’ve read many articles by “writers” who clearly know their subject but simply don’t know how to write.
Comment by Wendy (30 comments.) on 30 July 2009:

Hey Bob and Therese:

Not to be too much of a union organizer here : ) but that animosity between editors and writers seems kind of like what the company is trying to create. I am extremely tired, so please excuse mistakes, etc…but just felt like I should chime in. I think when we come at it with the attitude that the writers and editors are both working hacks (with aspirations of that best selling novel, or whatever : ) ) but that we are all just doing this to get a nice income, well, that’s the best attitude, I think. I’ll admit that I am writing as fast as I can. I have made some **really* stupid mistakes, and so have my editors…when they are done and received with a sense of humor, it’s all good. We just move on. The last really dumb thing I did was leave off half way through a sentence…and the article was on “Mind Maps” no less.

Again, if this is full of mistakes, etc. forgive me this time. I’ve got 4 kids at my feet and I woke up at 4:00 to get my homework done, so I’ll have time tonight to write for DS…you get the idea : )

Cheers,

Wendy
Wendy´s last blog ..Another day, another…
Comment by Sandra on 30 July 2009:

I agree with Therese, editors at DS take too much liberty and do not have enough education. I wrote for DS for four months and quit. I am now making very good money working with one of DS’s rivals, and the editing is wonderful. Editors are properly educated and give appropriate suggestions. It seems that the editors at DS are a nasty bunch. If you get one of them angry – watch out! Five hours of research flies out the window without a care.
Therese, I assume that you have a Graduate degree. I would advise you to take a look at the topics at About.com, and see if you are interested in any of those. The pay scale is excellent and the support is fantastic.
Best of Luck,
Sandra
Comment by Ken on 30 July 2009:

I agree with Wendy about the asymmetric nature of biographical information provided between CEs and writers. (Wow–Ken! can’t you phrase that a little less pretentiously?) I.e., as a CE, I’d sure like to know more about the writers whose work I edit. Hell, I’d like us all to get together for a picnic, but that may be impractical. Once I’ve edited an article and written my comments to the writer, I’d really value an exchange with him/her. Again, probably impractical, given the blistering pace we’re all supposed to maintain.
It really does trouble me to have to pass a harsh judgment on a writer’s work. When I do so, I wish I could do it one-on-one. In the end, we all profit when the quality of the work goes up.
Sorry for a somewhat rambling post. Bottom line, I used to earn my living as a writer, and I don’t want to discourage writers who are doing their best here. DS, please find a way to enhance communication between these foolishly antagonistic groups.
Comment by Felicia on 30 July 2009:

Very well said, Ken.
Comment by Wendy (30 comments.) on 30 July 2009:

Sandra,

Are you with About.com? I am interested in your experience with them if you are.
Thanks.

Wendy
Wendy´s last blog ..Another day, another…
Comment by Sandra on 31 July 2009:

Hi Wendy,

No, unfortunately I was not offered a position by About.com. I write about a variety of things; About.com only hires experts in certain areas. They are very specific about the qualifications needed to become a part of their team.
If you are an expert at something, go for it! They pay their writers a flat rate of $725 (or thereabouts) per month, plus revenue share based on clicks.
If you go to their website, you’ll see the categories that they are looking for experts in. Take a look, you might be able to fill one of those spots.
Comment by Felicia on 31 July 2009:

Hi Wendy,

Back in 2007 I applied to write for About.com. I got as far as entering the training phase which entailed creating and organizing an About.com website for my topic. It was a 6 week process and took even longer to find out if I was ‘awarded’ the spot.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), I wasn’t awarded the spot. The good thing about the whole process is that I wrote quite a bit of quality content and was able to place it elsewhere. The other good thing about it is that I realized that with my ‘work-aversion-itis’ condition, it would have been a mistake for me to accept the position. According to their website, most guides spend 25-30 hours a week writing for About.

If you are so inclined and have the time, check it out . New guides start at $625 a month. When I applied, new guides were paid $750 a month. Either way, its a popular site and being a guide there can boost your freelance writing career.
Comment by Wendy (30 comments.) on 31 July 2009:

Hey Sandra and Felicia:

I think after looking at the work involved, I agree with you, Felicia, that it is a lot of work for not much pay out…

Sandra, do you mind sharing which rival you work for? Is that okay to ask? (I am still pretty new at posting on blogs…I know there is etiquette involved…) I’m just trying to cover my bases. DS has been great to get me back writing a lot, and to remind myself that I **am** fast and good : ), but I **just** this second got another stupid editor comment, reminding me that there really is no consistency. Anyway, just curious and looking for better, more stable opportunities.
Wendy´s last blog ..Another day, another…
Comment by Jack on 8 August 2009:

Regarding communication between copy editors and writers: At none of the pubs I’ve worked for (about a half-dozen, in print and on the web) has their ever been anything more than very brief interaction between copyeditors and writers. The same was true when I worked on the other side, as copy chief for my college paper.

There’s good reason for this. Because the ratio of copy editor-to-piece is always so lopsided, they simply don’t have the time for discussion. Now, obviously what’s lacking at places like DS are content editors — but the business model won’t allow them. Which results in problems like poor communication between editors and writers, poor content-title relation, dumb mistakes getting through (because one more line of defense is missing), etc. — all expected in their business model, I think. Well, I hope.
Comment by Wendy (30 comments.) on 9 August 2009:

That’s a really good point. I’ve really appreciated this discussion. It has helped my attitude tremendously.

In fact, I’m not sure why I expect communication between copy editors and writers. Perhaps it is because many of their edits have been so wrong. The lack of communication between the copy editor and writer at Constant Content doesn’t bother me because I have the confidence of knowing that the copy editor is really good at what he’s doing.

In any case, 90% of the time DS works and they pay weekly : )
Wendy´s last blog ..Another day, another…
Comment by Dave on 25 August 2009:

I really appreciate this post and all the thoughtful comments; after weighing the pros and cons presented here, I nearly decided to apply as a writer at DS. But I just can’t get past the feeling that $15 per article is exploitation. I suppose any writer or editor would prefer payment instead of everything trending toward “free,” as things have in the blogosphere, gnawing away at journalism’s already eroding foundation . . . I imagine no one tries to carve out a living this way, but it almost doesn’t seem worth it for the pocket money, either? How much time do you out there who are writers devote to an article?
Comment by Wendy (30 comments.) on 26 August 2009:

Dave:

As I sit down to begin my days’ writing for DS, I have this post in the back of my mind. Why indeed? For me, I am writing for DS because I need to start working again, and after being out of the loop for several years, this seems like a good way to get my feet wet. I started out spending 30 minutes per article, so the rate became $30 per hour, which is a reasonable amount. And, I figured, being able to pick any number of assignments and just work through them as quickly as possible is a luxury not afforded in many writing jobs. Our local paper pays (I believe) 2 cents a word, and I know if I approached them for work, I could do maybe one feature per week…so this looks a lot better than that. I would **love** to be earning $200 or more per assignment, which seems like a normal “average” rate, but this is a good intermediate step.

I am almost at burnout, though. In the last month, I have written at least 65,000 words for them…

I think my writing is getting clearer, though, which is great. I love *knowing* that I am capable of churning out this many words on some really arcane subjects. I would love to have a regular gig that paid better…and am starting to actively look.

This is about as low as I think I would ever possibly go, rate-wise. But again, and to answer your question, they are fast to write (now I average about an hour per article, because I *am* taking more care with each one) and the work is non-ending…I just pour through them…

I am also carving out time to do residual income work. This is temporary…

I tell my friends and family that I am doing a “sweatshop style” writing job…

Back to work…
Wendy´s last blog ..Another day, another…
Comment by WillWriteForFood on 4 September 2009:

Thanks for this article and this blog. It’s great!

I’ve written for DS studios. They have the potential to be a great gig for freelancers, but the editing process can be very frustrating to work with. IMO, it’s not geared towards long-term work, which probably accounts for their cattle calls. As others have pointed out, the editors can be very difficult (can is the operative word here, as some have been very helpful) and unprofessional. Writers can’t liaise directly with the editors for clarification, and the writers only have one chance at a rewrite. Each rewrite counts against the writers and can be grounds for being fired. In that light, the process is heavily biased towards the editors which can be extremely aggravating for us writers.

I hope that they sort out their editing process because, again, it has great potential overall.
Comment by David on 20 September 2009:

I’ve been writing for DS for over a year now, and it has been long enough. The editorial requests are inconsistent and often the senior editors are just plain rude to writers appealing rewrites. Although many of the copy editors are good or even excellent, some seem to relish any chance to micro-manage and others are simply incompetent. Don’t get me wrong – it’s a great way to get into professional writing and not a bad way to make some supplemental income, but it gets quite discouraging after a while.

On another note, I’ve seen some writers disparaged for not adequately proofreading their comments on this thread. That seems a bit petty, or at least off the mark. I am required to be meticulous in my professional articles, but in my informal communications making myself understood is good enough (I know that’s not the way editors look at the world.) I don’t think minor mistakes in a forum necessarily imply inaccuracy as a professional writer.
Comment by Wendy (5 comments.) on 20 September 2009:

Thanks! I’m pushing myself to complete my DS articles for the week, but I am dreading every minute…sometimes they just fly through no problem, but other times…oh, Lord! I have had such **nice** editors, but it is so hard to know what to say sometimes…they add the oddest content comments…suggesting stuff that is just irrelevant…

Anyway…thanks for your comment…

Also thanks for the mention about proofreading…I should have said something earlier, really. I agree that it seems petty to come down on someone for making mistakes in a blog post…who knows how tired or upset or whatever was going on in the background (now **there’s* a nice run-on for ya)…I know sometimes I just want to say something, but I’ve got all 4 boys in the background and tons of stuff on my mind…as you said, David, hours per day are spent being meticulous, it is nice to feel like we can let our hair down sometimes…

Anyway, thanks! Perfect timing!
Wendy´s last blog ..Welcome!
Comment by David on 20 September 2009:

Glad you liked it! I know what you mean about needing to let your hair down, Wendy. It seems like the more meticulous I am with my professional writing, the sloppier the rest of it gets. I think its some sort of rebellion of the subconscious for me (no kids). Here’s hoping that we both become famous writers some day. Being big means never having to say period.
Comment by Deborah (16 comments.) on 22 September 2009:

While I completely understand that copy editors are hired for the purpose of quality control, I find myself questioning the authenticity of their qualifications. Many of the rewrite requests have been logical and necessary but some are absolutely absurd and lack in clarification. The editors seem to enjoy sending articles back regardless of whether or not you followed the editorial guidelines. Coming from a background of creative writing, I found it difficult to adapt to the logical and factual style that I have been writing in for the past couple of years. Upon being accepted into Demand Studios, nine out of ten articles were sent back for rewrites and three were rejected. I was not given a chance to appeal these rejections. Writing for Demand Studios is a shot in the dark, at best. However, the idea of “possibly” getting paid for my hard work is not thrilling and I must say that there needs to be a more effective screening process regarding the hiring of copy editors.
Comment by Ken on 22 September 2009:

You make some great points, Deborah. I’m a copy editor who has been criticized by DS for not sending some articles back to the writer. I prefer, when possible, to make changes myself. DS feels that by doing so I deprive the writers of a learning opportunity. But come on: The name of this game is churning out volume as fast as possible, with quality as high as possible given the constraints. I wish there were a way for writer and CE to have a dialog, but I guess the need for speed precludes that. Too bad; we lose an opportunity to work out problems with articles through a collaborative process instead of by imposing the CE’s arbitrary solutions. I’ve been doing this for a few months, and I still don’t know if writers see my comments after I’ve edited their work.
Comment by Deborah (16 comments.) on 22 September 2009:

You make some excellent points as well, Ken. In my own freelance business, I work with an editor. I have seen firsthand that the process of a writer and editor working together greatly increases the strength of a writing company. It would be excellent if Demand Studios assigned every writer a copy editor as their counterpart but I think the reason they do not do this is because there are more writers than editors. On a positive note, I can say that the first editor who sent me a rewrite request made me realize the level of my writing skill and just from those few comments I was able to greatly improve my factual writing. I am grateful for what I have learned and at this point am proceeding with caution so as not to trigger any more rewrites or rejections. I’ll admit, it’s a little scary.
Comment by diana on 27 September 2009:

Hi all,

I have been writing for DS for about four months or so, and the last month, I’ve been spending fewer than 20 hours a week and pulling in $1k. I am limiting myself to the $20 articles because they add up faster, and I also only choose articles for which I know I can find good sources. I have only had one article rejected, and it seemed to be for a stupid reason. I had listed an additional source in the comments to the editor box after the rewrite, as there was no more room in the references box. They rejected it because they said that readers couldn’t see it there so it didn’t count. I’ve asked every copy editor since then who sends a rewrite to tell me a better way to do it so that it doesn’t get rejected, but no one has responded.

I have had two or three nasty rewrite requests from copy editors, and have bitten my tongue thus far. But if I get another one, I think I’ll send a comment. We’re all trying to make some extra money and do a good job, and there’s no need to be unprofessional or make assumptions that you know nothing about (one said that I obviously hadn’t researched the issue, when that just wasn’t true). I think some CEs expect an awful lot out of a writer for $20, and others agree that these articles aren’t meant to exhaust a particular subject. And, as others have posted, you just never know what you’re going to get.

I’m a little concerned about one poster’s comment that each rewrite counts against a writer and can lead to getting fired. I crank out 50 articles a week, and I would say on average I might get 8-10 back asking for only very simple changes. I get great feedback, most of the time saying that the article is great, but they would just like to see me add one or two things or make a quick clarification. Are you allowed a certain percentage or number of rewrites before they fire you? It’s not a perfect system, but I’m grateful for the extra $4k per month and an extremely easy and flexible workload. I don’t want to lose it and don’t see these rewrites as a bad thing — until now!
Thanks!
Comment by Ken on 27 September 2009:

I don’t know if I’ve ever been one of your editors, but it sounds like you put a lot of effort into your work. It would very sad if DS’s guidelines led to your being fired. Firing should be confined to writers who don’t make the effort or who manifestly can’t write. It’s clear to me that you are not in either category.
Comment by Heidi (11 comments.) on 27 September 2009:

Kudos to you, Diana, for making DS so successful for you. I’m not 100 percent sure, but I think they only start to notice when rewrite to article count ratio is around 40 percent. Then, I would hope, they would look at the exact reasons for the rewrites, which seem minor from what you wrote.

That copy editor should not have rejected a piece just because there were too many sources to fit in the box. CEs need to fact check, yes, but if all the facts were there and could be verified based on all your sources, it was totally uncalled for. Sometimes writers don’t even include one viable source, let alone so many that they don’t fit in the form. Sorry that happened to you, but I feel like it was one of those unfortunate flukes.

I honestly wouldn’t worry about getting fired if I was you. It sounds like you put a lot of effort in your articles and that you actually care, which IMHO is really hard to find. And if they will fire someone out of hand without investigating, they aren’t worth working for anyway.
Heidi´s last blog ..OC’s Kherington Payne makes her movie debut in the 2009 Fame film
Comment by Wendy (5 comments.) on 27 September 2009:

Hey all!

Ken and Deborah, your recent posts just triggered a feeling in me that I may be working at McDonald’s, staring at a 5 star restaurant across the street, complaining about the crappy job, etc…but unwilling to get dressed nicely, spruce up the act and apply next door : ) does that make sense??? The only thing DS has going for it (for me, in my opinion right now) is that it is there, open 24/7 and requires very little from me (until I get arbitrarily let go or whatever…) **and** for the truly immature part of me, it seems to encourage pointless blaming of the “Man” or “System” or odd copy writers : ). I’ve had a great experience so far, but I have to admit that the reactions working there triggers in my are unflattering and not what I am used to at work…Deborah, your comment about your working relationship with your editor in your other job really struck me…I realized that, yeah, in every other work experience I have ever had, I have had great collaborative experiences…hmmm…

I’m enjoying writing at Suite 101, and I am also starting to rethink the idea of spending more time churning out the query letters and writing for print or “real” on-line magazines…

I really appreciate that back and forth you guys had…it helped me clarify a lot of conflicting feelings I’ve been having about the experience! Thanks!!

Wendy
Wendy´s last blog ..Welcome!
Comment by Deborah (16 comments.) on 27 September 2009:

Wendy and Ken, thank you for the encouragement. I am truly concerned about my employment status with DS as all but one of my articles were sent back for rewrites and three were rejected, though I only had ten. I would have to say that the rejections were all for very silly reasons, the editors did not fact check and I’ve been hearing that these rejections and rewrites can cause my employment to be terminated. It seems quite unfair yet my appeals have fallen upon deaf ears. DS has made improvements on many of their system’s flaws but the major thing they need to improve upon is the amount of authority they give their copy editors. Most of mine have been unprofessional, or downright misinformed. I do care about my work and my reputation as a writer and am not sure if it’s just bad luck or a bad system. I question people who say they make most of their living from DS because I’ve seen firsthand how shaky the editing process is. But what’s good for some isn’t good for others. This upcoming week I’m going to give it one more try and go over the guidelines again (though I think they’re silly and much too numerous) and see if perhaps there were things I missed in there. I’m going to try to offset that rewrite ratio. I guess I’ll need to see what happens.
Comment by Ken on 27 September 2009:

I must agree with you about the guidelines. I read them, but don’t memorize them. When I edit, I do the best I can to hone the piece into an informative, interesting, and professional article. For that, I get three dollars and fifty cents. Pay me more, and I’ll take the time to measure everything against the guidelines, make sure the sources are all allowed, and generally toe the company line. Sorry, DS, but you get what you pay for. (No doubt there are plenty of CEs willing to go that extra mile, but not me. It’s why I’ve hung it up for now.)
Comment by Heidi (11 comments.) on 28 September 2009:

DS just added twice weekly payments starting this Tuesday. I wish I enjoyed the work more. Sigh.
Heidi´s last blog ..Who went home on The Amazing Race? Season 15, Episode 2
Comment by Felicia on 28 September 2009:

I saw the twice weekly payment and thought of giving them a try again.

I claimed a few titles, but I’m finding that I really don’t want to write them as I just don’t feel like getting back on the Demand Studios editorial merry-go-round.
Comment by Deborah (16 comments.) on 28 September 2009:

Ken, I had no idea the editors were so underpaid. I pay my editor half of what I charge my client which is $10 per page. So if there’s a five page document, she keeps $25 for proofreading and light editing, which when compared to a lot of other companies online, is quite fair. I think when it comes to pay, employers don’t realize that if they want good employees they need to pay for good employees. A lot of these companies expect way too much for way to little. Compared to article rates on odesk.com (around $1) and Delegate2 ($3 per 250 words), I felt Demand Studios rates were reasonable until I found out about the craziness of the editorial process.

I wrote a Photoshop Tutorial because I know the program like the back of my hand and it was sent back by the editor saying “Please put quotes around the tools.” Seriously? That’s not even proper grammar. On another article, the editor told me to list websites for the hotels. When I tried to explain in the comment that the hotels were not chains and therefore did not have their own websites, she rejected it. So I put it on hubpages where it’s hubscore seems to be climbing each day. Shows how much they know.

Like I said, they really do look for reasons to either get out of paying you or have you running around like a chicken with it’s head cut off. I think they just send them back because they feel that it’s their “duty” as editors, but their duty is to proofread, not find a silly reason to blemish a writer’s reputation.
Comment by Wendy (30 comments.) on 28 September 2009:

Deborah

I just checked out your writing business. What a great thing you’ve got there. You are inspiring me : )

Thanks

Wendy
Comment by Ken on 28 September 2009:

I knew what the pay was when I went into this, so I can’t complain that I was tricked. I guess I felt that if I could pick up $20 an hour or so by doing light copy editing, that would be a useful supplement to my other income. (As an independent copy editor, though, I charge $75 an hour. The work isn’t steady, but the pay is more in line with my experience.) But once the hassle factor increased, it just wasn’t worth it.
Deborah – I’m available in case you need more editing than your current ed can supply. (I also know Photoshop!)
Comment by Deborah (16 comments.) on 28 September 2009:

Thank you, Wendy and Ken. Actually, I was considering finding a new editor due to some recent issues I’ve been having with mine, though I won’t go into details about that.

Ken, if you’re serious about it then I certainly could use the help. More and more editorial projects have been coming up (though the work is still somewhat slow) and I need help offsetting my DS rewrite ratio since I may one day need them in the future, especially with the holidays coming up. It seems to be the slowest time of the year. We could discuss this further via email. My email address is on my website. I would love to have a more experienced editor to work with.
Comment by Heidi (11 comments.) on 28 September 2009:

I agree with Ken 100%. When I signed on as a CE it was $2.50, but all you had to do was proofread, so it went by pretty fast for me.

Now editors have to fact check, act as gatekeepers, make sure the article strictly adheres to each nuanced format…. Then they told me during one of my reviews that my performance had “hit a skid” because of 6 articles they thought should have been rejected or rewritten. What? I had done probably over 100.

The day I dreaded logging in to the website was the day I knew I needed a break. I didn’t need to feel like I had a boss, especially if I’m not getting health insurance.
Heidi´s last blog ..Who went home on The Amazing Race? Season 15, Episode 2
Comment by AKAStephanie on 29 September 2009:

Well, this was a very informative blog. I just started writing at DS last week. So far, 4 published with no rewrites and one rewrite.

My rewrite was based on my editor’s lack of knowledge. I mean, he seemed nice enough, but I write science articles only, because both of my degrees are in science. I explained to him that I actually did PhD level research in this area and he came back with a question any first year chemistry student would know.

I led him through it, tried not to make him feel ignorant in the process, but who knows if he will take it personally. The worst thing is I gave him a resource that explained the very thing he asked me about.

Is it my fault that Demand Studios asked for a scientific article and the guy I get to edit has never taken a chemistry class? I actually felt bad for having to dumb down my explanation.

I like the money and as long as there are science articles to write I will write them, but this guy clearly knew nothing about science.

Suite 101 is the same – I wrote a very cool article in forensic science and this editor, who has no science background, complained about overhangs in my link text and wanted me to take OUT my cited reference links? I don’t have time for that kind of stuff, especially when they aren’t even really paying me, just a promise of future revenue.
Comment by Felicia on 29 September 2009:

I’m not surprised about the issues with Demand Studios. On the other hand, hang in there with Suite 101. When I first started with Suite I had to learn their way of doing things. I’m glad I hung in there because the residual income was worth it.
Comment by Ilene on 7 October 2009:

Felicia,
I was just accepted by Demand Studios as a writer and am thrilled to find your blog. I feel like I’ve worked there for five years after having read all these posts and know the company’s issues. I don’t know if I’ll actually write for the company due to all the concerns voiced here, but I felt compelled to say that while you’re obviously a very fine writer I think you’d make a great mental health counselor. You have a wonderful way of addressing a continuous flow of negative information, dealing with it honestly but nicely and ending on a positive note. Your family must adore you! Your readers certainly appreciate you!
Comment by Felicia on 7 October 2009:

Wow, Ilene, you make me blush!

Don’t know if my teenager appreciates me so much, but I’m definitely going to make him read your comment.

Welcome to NJFM!
Comment by Gerrie on 11 October 2009:

I guess I can’t understand why anyone would want to work for near nothing. The pay is ridiculous.
Comment by Felicia on 12 October 2009:

Gerrie, sometimes we have to walk a mile in the other person’s shoes to truly understand why the rate of pay is acceptable to some and not to others.

This is an ongoing debate in the freelance writing community. I share my opinion in an article entitled Freelance Writing Rate of Pay: Why Some Writers Accept Such Low Pay Rates.
Comment by Ilene on 12 October 2009:

Though I haven’t started writing there, Demand Studios does appear to be a sweatshop for writers. I expect to at least try it because I’m out of work and need to pay bills. If the economy were better, I think the company would be challenged to get competent writers for what it pays and would have to raise rates.

Two questions: How long does it take to get articles approved?

Regarding the “suggest title” category, I read somewhere you suggest a title and then write the article, if the title is approved, for a payment of $5. Is that correct?! Why write for $5 if you can write for $15 or more?
Comment by Felicia on 13 October 2009:

Ilene, I’ll let one of my readers answer your questions. It’s been a few months since I’ve written for Demand Studios. I found the review times varied from a few hours to a few days.

Not so sure about the payment for suggested titles.
Comment by Ken on 13 October 2009:

You’re right, Ilene. I was offered $5 each to write several titles I had suggested. I did write one of them, but the insultingly low pay offer for what I felt could have been eminently worthwhile articles caused me to abandon them. I stuck to copy-editing, but have discontinued that too, because of the increasingly annoying guidelines and rules governing DS content. Ain’t worth the $3.50 to put up with the hassle, IMO. I readily concede that this is just my point of view, and others seem to thrive in the DS factory.
Comment by Melissa (6 comments.) on 23 October 2009:

I have not written for DS for months now because I could make the same over time by focusing elsewhere without all the stress,and when I saw they are now offering health care options I began looking around the ‘net for info on how things are going there. I see this post was written in May and from what I have seen on other forums and articles, many seem even more disgruntled than they were back in the spring. I think I’ll just stay away!
Melissa´s last blog ..Healthcare for Freelance Writers : Demand Studios
Comment by Ilene on 10 November 2009:

On what sites does Demand Studios use its writer’s bios/photos? Not crazy about having my info attached to it. The photo I submitted plainly says it’s me.
Comment by Felicia on 11 November 2009:

I’m not quite sure which sites require a bio. That’s a good question for DS. Maybe they have it somewhere in their forums or blogs (I’ve got to be honest, I don’t spend much time at all on either).
Comment by David on 17 November 2009:

Hello all. I just applied to Demand Studios last week as a writer and editor and was accepted right away to write and given tests for the copy editor. I found the copy editing tests to be fairly standard issue, lots and lots of mistakes. It’s been about five days since I turned them in and haven’t heard anything. About how long did it take other editors to hear back? Anyway, after reading these comments I’m a little nervous about working for them, but I figure if I get into a groove it can be decent money. Is the $20 an hour for CEs realistic? That’s about six stories and hour, which doesn’t seem too bad for 400-word articles. But it looks like there is a lot of extra stuff that goes into it. As for writing, I haven’t done any yet because I want to make sure I get some I can easily write to make that $15 worthwhile. I’m currently a stay-at-home dad with plenty of professional journalism experience and am just looking for a little brain stimulation and extra cash. Anyone think DS isn’t too much of a hassle?
Comment by Ken on 18 November 2009:

David -

See my comments of 13 October. The $20 per hour goal is probably attainable if you work hard. You’ll find that some articles take only a few minutes to copy-edit, while others can take a half hour. That’s partly because of wildly varying ability among the writers, and partly because of the subject matter; some technical articles need more scrutiny than others.

In the end, I come down on the “not worth the hassle” side. I feel that, for three dollars and fifty cents, I will clean up bad grammar, misspelling, and other such-like goofs, and make the prose as readable as I can. But my time is worth more than what it would take to satisfy all the DS rules and restrictions. That’s the job, in my opinion, of full-time DS editors.

The foregoing notwithstanding, I wish you well in your quest for the groove.
Comment by Wendy (22 comments.) on 18 November 2009:

Hi!

I would say, from my experience, that *if* there are enough titles (which there are right now) and if you can just kind of take the editing for what it is (sometimes just bizarre) and don’t forget to use a pseudonym (this one I *didn’t* do, and kind of regret) then I think it can be a place where you can make decent (but not that great) money easily.

Just my 2 cents.

After not writing for them for July and August, I am back. They have a ton of new titles and I need money…but Suite 101 is more professional and creating your own space is more rewarding (though, for me, not yet financially…)

Wendy
Wendy´s last blog ..Nov 12, Essential Oil Blends
Comment by Allena (1 comments.) on 18 November 2009:

Not sure if this changes any minds, but today Demand Studios released specific info about their new health insurance plan.

Prices are pretty similar to other places where you are a member of a union or guild or whatnot, but…
Comment by David on 18 November 2009:

Well, I guess it doesn’t matter. My tests got rejected. Not sure what they are looking for. I have more than 10 years experience editing all kinds of different things for much more respected publications than DS. I would imagine if I could edit for a metro daily I could hack it at DS. And I’m pretty sure I caught 99 percent of the junk in those tests plus added the comments they were looking for based on their style and what I’ve seen here and in other forums. Oh well. Maybe it’s for the best, especially based on what Ken says. Right now I doubt I’ll write much for them. Thanks for the responses.
Comment by Beelissa (9 comments.) on 18 November 2009:

I’ve been writing for DS for over 6 months. I haven’t had any major problems. I had 2 articles rejected. One was because I basically refused to stay on topic (what printer to use for printing business cards and brochures, and I said pretty much any color printer would do and talked about general strategy, when they apparently wanted specific models recommended) and one was unfair, I think, because the title was unwritable as written (how to print onto foam core board — I contacted 2 places that provide this service, both of which replied that they print onto paper or other flexible media and mount it onto the foam core board, they don’t print directly onto the foam core board). Apparently, if you find that the title can’t be done you’re supposed to “release the title so another author has a chance to write it.” Maybe one with magical talent who knows about the secret printer that prints onto foam core board that I couldn’t find.

But I’ve written and been paid for 143 articles. With less than 1/4 of these having rewrite requests. Most of the rewrite requests have been very reasonable. I do see inconsistencies with the editing — some seem to pass on things that others ask for a rewrite about. But you never get to know who the editor is or communicate with them in any way other than the notes attached to the articles, and you only get one shot at rewriting, if you don’t do what they ask, they’ll reject it and — well, I tried appealing the foam core article, but they refused my appeal. So next time I see a title that can’t be done, I will leave it on the list. There are almost always lots of titles to choose from, though some are easier to write than others. Many are mis-categorized, so it’s hard to search through them, and if you search for more than one keyword (or a multiple word keyword) it searches for any article title with any of the words in it. I guess that would be one way they could easily improve, by making it easier to sort through their title list.

They now pay twice a week, and though the turnaround on the editing end does vary, I’ve never had an article sit unedited for more than 3 days. I get several days to turn around a rewrite, so it seems fair that the editors have a bit of time to turn around their work as well. Most seem to do it at night.

A couple of good points. The forums are pretty good, as far as a way to get info. And they seem to be working to make their writers happy. They’ve recently added an option for some form of health insurance for writers who write a certain number of articles and have been with them for more than 3 mos. They also added, a couple of months ago, a banner that pops up with announcements and info about system maintenance or outages/problems. They ask, in return, for people to just pay attention to the guidelines and deadlines.

In all, I’m happy to write for them as it gives me regular money coming in that I can count on if I hold up my end of things.
Beelissa´s last blog ..What I Write About
Comment by Felicia on 19 November 2009:

Thanks for sharing your experience with Demand Studios.

I recently started writing for them again. It’s been about a week and a half and so far things are going ok. I’ve had one extremely silly editorial request. It was so silly that I really didn’t understand what the editor was talking about and I said so in my reply. They approved the article. My other edit was my fault. I use voice recognition software and I apparently didn’t edit one of the paragraphs. The editor didn’t even know how to ask for the change so he/she basically told me to rewrite the paragraph. I did and it was approved.

It seems like they’re trying to make things easier for the writers. I started writing for them over a year ago (probably closer to two years) and things have changed drastically.

I’m still taking it slow (no more than one or two articles a day) because I remember the frustration of ridiculous editorial requests, but all in all, things seem to be better than before.

Oh, and I do like the twice a week payment. Things have been a bit slow residually in November so the up front pay is a nice supplement.
Comment by rose (1 comments.) on 28 November 2009:

I agree with everything in your post. I describes exactly how I feel. I’ve only been with these guys for 2 weeks, but I’m always guessing whether or not my article will be flagged for a rewrite. I was curious about this place to make some extra cash as I build my online business, but the jury is still out if this is something worth pursuing on a regular basis other than just making some extra cash on the side. The CEs I’ve been getting are nice in their critique but contradict each other and it is extremely frustrating. I try to follow the guidelines to the tee but some how they are applying the rules differently each time.
Comment by Dixie on 5 December 2009:

I’m awaiting the results of the two copy-editing tests submitted. Thanks, David, because your comments most closely address my situation. Would you mind identifying the topics of your tests? It would be interesting to know whether DS sends the same two tests to every CE applicant.

Many comments have criticized the ridiculous, incompetent, silly, rude and unqualified rewrite requests from CEs to writers. As a prospective DS copy editor, it would be helpful to read the language of these requests in context so I could judge for myself.
Comment by Jan S. (7 comments.) on 6 December 2009:

I just discovered this blog, and have bookmarked it. Thank you, Felicia, for such an informative site!

I am considering applying to be a copy editor for Demand Studios. If I do so, I will definitely leave a comment here as to my experiences with DS.
Jan S.´s last blog ..Bromance, Shonen Style
Comment by Felicia on 7 December 2009:

Good luck to you Jan. My recent experiences (except for one major issue), have been rather good for the most part. Hopefully you’ll get the gig and report back to us.
Comment by Wendy (22 comments.) on 7 December 2009:

Hey!
I’ll just jump in to say that lately, for whatever reason, my experience has been better there. I know what you mean, Paul, about cookie-cutter articles. But I recently have decided that it can be fun to write on arcane subjects for a couple hours a day & strangely, the copy editors’ requests have gotten more normal. I had two in a row last night that were a little “complicated” I think they don’t realize that, since we have one chance to “get it right” and no chance for communication, they need to be very clear and specific about what they want changed.
But I did agree with their changes (as I think I understand them) so it wasn’t tooo bad.

I am on the lookout for better opportunities, for sure, but right now I’m happier with the place.
Wendy´s last blog ..Nov 27, How To Give A Massage
Comment by Felicia on 7 December 2009:

Wendy, I have to agree with you.

I think my attitude towards Demand Studios has changed. I write a few a day, and on to the next.

I give them $15 worth of effort and it seems to be working out pretty well. I only write about topics that I can dictate in my sleep. I write them quickly, find a few resources, upload them and on to the next. The good thing about writing the How To articles is that I don’t even have to waste time looking for images, so the process is rather fast.

When I run out of quick topics, I go elsewhere to write until they load up again.

The attitude adjustment has made a world of difference in writing for DS.
Comment by Wendy (22 comments.) on 7 December 2009:

Hey Felicia!

I’m just finishing up “What is the Best Gauge Wire to Use for Hair Pins” : ) I hope they load up good titles soon : P

Thanks again for being here, btw.
Wendy´s last blog ..Nov 27, How To Give A Massage
Comment by David on 7 December 2009:

Dixie: The tests I took were on acupuncture and Epstein-Barr Virus. I’m over not passing now, but I still am surprised I didn’t. The only thing I can think of is I edited it too aggressively. On a journalism forum I frequent a guy there who is a CE for DS said he recommends focusing on making the types of comments you would be making if you were actually a CE, but I think I did that. So who knows. DS claims that they reject 50 percent of CE applicants right off the bat and then half those who take the test. My wife said they probably just throw darts to make the decisions. I’ve heard of a lot of really qualified people who didn’t make the cut. It’s good they have high editing standards, but I think it’s a little misplaced at times, especially with all the picky rewrites I hear about. Still, would have liked the chance. Good luck to you. Hope you make it.
Comment by Wendy (22 comments.) on 7 December 2009:

A good example of a CE request that irked me centered around appropriate us of the passive voice.

I totally understand the importance of the active voice in many situations…

Yes, I own a copy of “The Elements of Style”

I used the passive voice for a list of some sort (I just tried to find the original article but can’t) and was told “unfortunately, you do not seem to know what the passive voice is” and was given (note passive construction) a lecture about the importance of *never* using the passive voice and then a “helpful” (but wrong) list of ways to recognized the passive voice…

Here’s the thing: I got really upset. I was also writing a major final paper for my Master’s degree, and, you know, I homeschool my 4 boys…I **probably** shouldn’t write when I am tired, but I have to eat…

I think being kind as a CE is a good idea. Being professional is an extra bonus.

Using the passive voice at times is a great idea!

Here’s an example that the CE agreed with me was appropriate:

The nail is sucked into the tube using magnetic suction.

“The tube sucks the nail” or whatever just sounds silly…

: P

The example that was “helpfully” corrected by the CE was not as absurd sounding but similar…

It depends on whether you want to emphasize the subject or the object…

Anyway, I am mostly happy…
Wendy´s last blog ..Nov 27, How To Give A Massage
Comment by Dixie on 8 December 2009:

Thanks for your replies, David and Wendy. Turns out I didn’t make the cut. Honestly, it feels totally arbitrary. Here’s the key sentence in the rejection note:

“Unfortunately, it seems that the results of your tests did not meet our needs.”

It seems? Who or what composed that answer? I’m guessing there’s some program looking for a particular query keyword or two. Just as you said, David, I’m mystified.

After looking through several eHow.com articles, though, I’d say there’s plenty of room for improvement throughout. Maybe I’ll put my app back through just to see what happens.
Comment by David on 9 December 2009:

I also got the “seems” response. It’s an interesting way to phrase it, especially to an editor. Either I meet your needs or I don’t.

If they are turning down qualified, professional editors it makes you wonder who is slipping through. This isn’t to slight the qualified, professional editors who are working for DS, but some of the complaints from writers seem to go a little beyond the petty writer-copy editor relationship we’ve all experienced on some level.

Either they are hiring unprofessional editors or their standards are not meetable, especially for the pay, making CEs cover their backs in ways they usually wouldn’t. It’s probably a little of both.

And Dixie’s right, not like some of this is the highest quality stuff out there or that it even pretends to be. I like that they have high editing standards, that’s not common on the web, but I think it might go a little too far.
Comment by Roxanne on 9 December 2009:

Dixie, honey, you dodged a large and frustrating bullet, IMHO.

I am glad that I found this site. I was beginning to question my sanity.

I was hired as a CE for Demand last week, and I just tendered my resignation.

I encountered an astounding level of technical issues with their Web site. And, they do not allow you to delete your account with them, either, so be warned. They have your info, it’s up/out there.

Their system essentially ate the first article I managed to get edited for them, after days of trying to get started and being thwarted by tech problems. The guidelines and regulations given me were greater in number than I have received for any editorial project I have done. Ever. To have met them all would have required a skill that I am not sure any human is possessed of.

I am a professional in this field w/a degree and loads of experience. I was going to do this as a side gig, but it is nowhere near to being worth the frustration.

And all you writers out there–you may be fantastic, and I am sure many of you are, but the quality of writing I saw in the articles I reviewed was mediocre at best to abysmal at worst. Some of it was frighteningly bad–an English Education article I reviewed had me looking over my shoulder for Alan Funt. Or Beckett. This writing didn’t require copy editing–it required an act of God.

And for 3.50 an article–are you kidding me? They seriously need to add a level of content/development editing to their process.

It would also help if they paid their writers a decent rate–I wouldn’t break a sweat for 15 bucks a pop, either.

I am afraid I would not be able to reco them. If you’ve had a positive experience w/them, I congratulate you. But that was not what I found.

I wish anyone considering them the best of luck…and an Rx for Valium.
Comment by Ken on 9 December 2009:

Gee, Roxanne, you said exactly what I feel. I’ve been on the CE staff for about 6 months, but have not done any editing for the past couple. What Roxanne said is exactly why. Too many hoops through which to jump. Too many rules with which to become familiar. Too much hassle for too paltry a return.

I found a local doctor who was writing a book for a lay audience, and offered my editing assistance. He accepted, and the book has just been published. My editing work on it was not all that different from what I did for DS, but the return was. I was paid $75 an hour.

Go thou and do likewise.
Comment by Wendy (22 comments.) on 9 December 2009:

Hi Roxanne!

Your post gave me a wide grin. Thank you : )

It’s an odd experience. I have to admit to being thankful that there was a glitch and I was not given the test to be a CE—either that or I am such a horrible writer that I wasn’t even considered : P.

For all my weird experiences with CEs, the vast majority have been pleasant…and that is saying something, considering what they must try to do for $3.50…

I’m still hoping to find something better, but until then…I’m writing as fast as I can : )
Wendy´s last blog ..Nov 27, How To Give A Massage
Comment by Wendy (22 comments.) on 9 December 2009:

Hey Ken—

(I am procrastinating writing “Natural Recipes for Sea Salt and Aloe Vera for Hair” & “Natural Resin for Glue Making”)

I wonder how you “found” the doctor…was it luck? Do you mind sharing? I am considering venturing out, but am a little bit unsure the best way to go about getting clients…

Thanks so much for anything you are willing to share…
Wendy´s last blog ..Nov 27, How To Give A Massage
Comment by Dixie on 10 December 2009:

Roxanne and Ken,

Pardon me for continuing to wonder about the DS process. David has speculated that aggressive editing might have brought about his rejection. I wonder the same thing.

How did you phrase your queries, in the form of giving orders/instructions to the writer or as statements to the test graders?

Any other tricks you know or have heard about would satisfy my burning curiosity. I take rejection e-mail as a personal challenge.
Comment by Ken on 10 December 2009:

Wendy -

Not sure if this will help you any, but the doctor I work with is actually my doctor. I found him through an article in a magazine that described his practice in ways that appealed to me. He was distributing weekly inspirational messages to his patients and others, and I took a chance and copy-edited one of those messages (it needed the fixing), printed it out, and gave it to him with the offer of my continuing services. My good fortune was that his ego did not prevent him from accepting my help.

Dixie -

I don’t recall the specifics of my CE test, but my style is to phrase messages to writers as respectful suggestions or sarcasm-free questions. I’ve been a writer longer than an editor, so I know what it’s like to be on the receiving end of snotty editing. Doesn’t help anyone.
Comment by Roxanne on 10 December 2009:

Dixie–I treated my C/E test as I would any standard copy edit–I acted as if it were an article for publication, and addressed all my queries to the AU. I indicated where I had checked facts, etc.

Just basically went through it as thoroughly as I would anything I copy edit.

Any comment I direct toward an author is generally phrased as a question, assuming that they are the authority on the subject, not I. (Even when it is abundantly clear they are not an authority…) Rarely do I exhibit as much snark in a manuscript as I have here, I promise! I am not a mean person, truly I am not. I don’t like working with mean AUs, so I assume no one wants to work with a mean editor!

At any rate, best of luck to all of you!!! I am blessed in that I have a “day job” that hits all the notes a majority of the time. I felt a bit greedy about seeking a 2nd job…and now that issue has been solved.
Comment by Wendy (22 comments.) on 10 December 2009:

Thank-you, Ken!

I have thought of doing that several times, but shied away. It is an excellent idea.
Wendy´s last blog ..Nov 27, How To Give A Massage
Comment by Jan S. (7 comments.) on 13 December 2009:

Wow… I was away from this thread for a few days, and now I’ve read the comments that came after mine (particularly Roxanne’s comments). I’ve been a writer and editor for years, but I’m fairly new to doing it online. I think that – given the comments – I may put applying to Demand Studios on hold for now, and continue researching other sites like Associated Content, Suite 101, Triond, etc. There are a lot of sites out there… and I still need to learn about SEO and keywords, too. This has been quite educational.
Jan S.´s last blog ..Neo-Shonen Fujoshi Speaks!
Comment by Cassie Tuttle (26 comments.) on 17 December 2009:

It appears that DS is hiring copyeditors.

I am a member of EFA (Editorial Freelancers Association. One of the benefits of EFA is their job list.

The below ad was in my Inbox today:

Job Description: COPY EDITORS WANTED – telecommute

Demand Studios, the main content production studio for the 30th most visited network of websites in the world (as determined by Comscore), produces more than 4,000 articles a day and distributes them to a highly passionate audience that demands accuracy and quality. With the quickly rising number of articles created by our writers each day, we are looking to add experienced copy editors to our team to ensure that more than 50 million readers are presented with the best quality content possible.

We are looking for dedicated and experienced editors who are able to deliver quality work in a timely fashion and are comfortable with occasional communication with writers.

About The Job:
Flexible schedule allows you to work from any location at any time
Telecommuting position with all work done online
Flat fee of $3.50 per 300-500 word article, with most editors averaging $20 to $25 per hour
Payments are made twice a week and are deposited directly into your PayPal account
Minimum working commitment of 75 short articles per week (approximately 12 hours)

Qualifications:
- Minimum of 3 years as a Managing, Line, Features, Section or Associate Editor at a newspaper, magazine, book publisher or publication
- Unyielding attention to detail
- Comfortable with occasional interaction with writers

Apply Now:

To apply, please visit the link below and upload your resume through the online application provided. Thanks for your interest in editing for Demand Studios and good luck!

http://www.demandstudios.com/freelance-work/copy-editors.html?utm_source=efa2&utm_medium=CEjobpost

Contact Info:
ContactName: Yury
ContactTitle: Marketing Acquisitions Manager
Company: Demand Studios
JobURL: http://www.demandstudios.com/freelance-work/copy-editors.html?utm_source=efa2&utm_medium=CEjobpost

ContactType: – contact by email
Email: demandwriters@yahoo.com

At $3.50 per 300- to 500-word article, I have a feeling very few EFA members (if any) will be inquiring about the job.
Cassie Tuttle´s last blog ..Let Me Just Say This, In Conclusion
Comment by Felicia on 19 December 2009:

Thanks for sharing with us Cassie.
Comment by Andrea (8 comments.) on 22 December 2009:

I am a frustrated DS writer. I had stopped writing for them completely because I kept getting an editor that just seemed ANGRY! Now I mostly get editors who are gentler in their approach.

However, I just got a rewrite request on a homeschooling article where the editor contradicted something that as a homeschooling mom of 8 years I knew to be true.

I gently reminded her of my expertise and rephrased the paragraph to include why what I said was true.

In their defense, when the editor does not know about the subject and asks what we think are stupid questions, it is for a good reason. When writing it is best to make believe you are talking to a friggin’ idiot leaving as few questions as possible… because sometimes you are.
Comment by Jan S. (7 comments.) on 22 December 2009:

Thanks for posting this, Cassie.

I’m surprised at the “minimum working commitment” of 75 articles per week that Demand is asking of their copy editors. To me, that would feel like a restriction on my schedule (freedom in my schedule is important to me as a freelancer), and also… it sounds like Demand is getting a bit desperate for copy editors who can function at the extremely fast pace they seem to be requiring. Yikes!
Jan S.´s last blog ..Hanasakeru Seishonen and Miracle Train Reviews
Comment by Felicia on 22 December 2009:

Andrea, I feel your pain.

If you haven’t done so already, check out my post on But What Color Were the Rocks?. It might help you get through the frustration.
Comment by Karen on 23 December 2009:

What caught my eye about Cassie’s post was to see that DS is apparently requiring only three years of professional experience for the copy editing positions. I recall them wanting a minimum of five years only a few months back.
Comment by Ken on 23 December 2009:

Jan S – I, too, was disappointed to get that “75 articles a month” notice from one of the captains recently. DS has always had a minimum requirement on the books, but I don’t think they’ve ever enforced it. If that’s what they mean to do now, sayonara, baby.
Comment by Ilene on 26 December 2009:

I’m a new writer and have produced six articles. My question is about the rating section called My Rating. How is this rating used? Does it determine what sites you can write for or used in some other way? How does, for example, having a 3 rating affect you versus a 5 rating? Thank you.
Comment by Felicia on 27 December 2009:

Ilene, I’m not quite sure how the ratings fit into the mix. I believe Demand Studios originally added the rating feature because writers wanted to know how well (or poorly) they were doing. Honestly, I never look at the ratings. I only look for new titles, CE comments and how much I’m getting paid. If the CE that wants to know “What color the rocks were” is the same one that gets to rate me, I’d rather not pay attention to the ratings.

If anyone has a better understanding of how the ratings come into play when writing for DS, please share.
Comment by Katherine on 4 January 2010:

Late to the thread, I guess, but I have a question. I applied as a copy editor Dec. 15. That same day I got an e-mail with instructions for the test. I took the test the next day, and have had absolutely zero feedback since. I was hoping maybe it was because of the holidays. Did anyone else wait this long to hear back? I just want to know if I should start applying elsewhere or hold out.

Thanks for any input!
Comment by Jan S. (7 comments.) on 5 January 2010:

Ken and everyone – I just applied to Demand Studios and was accepted as a writer, but as to my copy editor application, I received the following: “Thank you for submitting your Editor application to Demand Studios. At this time, we do not have any assignments for you that fit our needs.” I have worked as a freelance editor for many years, and was also the assistant editor of a magazine for two years, so I’m not exactly unqualified, but… whatever. Now I’ll peruse their new writer guidelines and see how I feel about writing for them…
Jan S.´s last blog ..Happy Holidays!
Comment by Ken on 5 January 2010:

Jan -

I wish you well as a DS writer.

Katherine -

You should do both.

All -

I’ve resigned from DS as a CE. I can do better elsewhere with fewer hassles. But that’s just me. I truly wish all good things for all on the staff.

-Ken
Comment by Kenny on 7 January 2010:

I’ve been writing for several months and have come to realize that the editors and writers are not on the same page. I have articles for rewrite or rejected because I didn’t follow the editor’s own guideline – not DS guidelines.
Comment by danielle on 14 January 2010:

Hi Ken, I have enjoyed reading your posts and like your writing style. If you are interested in editing my book please email me at :
inaturalhealing (at) aol(dot)com. Thank you.
Comment by Joe on 14 January 2010:

Ken, what were your monthly reviews like at DS? I just got my first and was a bit surprised at how demanding (no pun intended) it was. Most of the criticisms were qualified as “minor” things, but they went into great detail. At $3.50 per article, my attitude is to do the best I can and to earn $25 an hour or so, and if it’s not good enough, they can fire me. I only send articles back for rewrites when they just don’t make sense, and my review hinted that I need to send more back.
Comment by Ken on 14 January 2010:

First, I didn’t get monthly reviews. My first review came many weeks after I had edited the articles mentioned in the review–an artifact, I guess, of DS’s need for more staffing. When I started getting reviews, they tended to center on my inattention to some DS guideline (guilty; like you, Joe, I tried to do my best at editing and let the bureaucracy take care of the details). That plus, again like you, the comment that I should send more articles back for rewrite, to which I echo your feeling that the only reason to do that is when the original doesn’t make sense. I’d rather fix flawed manuscripts when I can.
As I’ve noted, all the hassles have led me to part company with DS and to devote my editorial efforts to my own clients’ work. Hope you fare better.
Comment by Khalid on 15 January 2010:

Katherine,

I applied for a CE position on Dec. 19, received the test on the 22nd, and have received nothing at all since then. For copyediting, it still says “Under Review” on my page.

I wrote them more than a week ago now, and have received no response.

Has anything changed for you?

Has anyone else had this happen? Any suggestions on where else to apply?
Comment by Laurie on 24 January 2010:

Wow. I was laid off two days ago, and have been frantically searching for stopgaps. I had heard about Demand, but decided to really check it out this time, which led me here. Wow. Just WOW. I’ve been an editor for 27 years, and the idea of editing and fact-checking articles for three bucks–with all the aggravation it appears to entail–is less than tempting.

Thanks for this blog, it told me all I needed to know about this “opportunity.” I’ll steer clear.
Comment by Wendy (30 comments.) on 25 January 2010:

I just made the firm decision to stop writing there.

In July, when I started writing again, I got my Media Bistro subscription, re-subscribed to Writer’s Digest, began working on my own blogs, etc….

but also started to work at DS. What happened is that everything else went by the wayside as I wrote as fast as I could for “easy” money.

I would caution you against it if you do have experience. Jobs are out there, rates are going *up* and DS can become a trap.

Good luck and all the best!
Wendy´s last blog ..I Just Lost $2 (and that is okay by me)
Comment by Felicia on 25 January 2010:

Wendy, I know where you’re coming from with DS.

I had stopped writing for them for a while and then started back. I think moderation is the key.

I stick with topics that I know like the back of my hand so I don’t spend much time there. You’re right. It can be a trap if you don’t watch out.
Comment by Andrea (8 comments.) on 25 January 2010:

Re: moderation.

I have learned to go to the site… search for a few keywords of subjects that I know well… if they are not there, I move on. No more wasting my time arguing with editors if I don’t have the personal knowledge to back it up. It is a time-waster.
Comment by Wendy (7 comments.) on 25 January 2010:

Hey Felicia and Andrea:

Good point about moderation. That is really solid advice…
when you do come across those articles that write themselves it can be an easy $15 dollars.

I feel that in many ways, DS has the potential to be a great place for writers *and* editors.

If they would just hire solid writers, allow the editors to edit(and not be your grade 7 English teacher) I think they could have a good thing going.

Thanks so much for the support, Felicia. I am encouraged by all you put out there.
Comment by Lena on 27 January 2010:

I just started working as a DS writer, under Livestrong, which pays $25/article. For me its fun so far, I have a masters in public health,extensive experience in health and in medical school, so its like I am being paid to study! I do have many paid years experience writing for magazines, newspapers and journals. I pick topics I’ve just studied and write about it, so it also allows me to cement what I have written. I must admit the rewrites have been funny, and I can tell that the editor isnt an expert in health conditions. rewrites have only taken me max of 5mins so far, and I am currently writing about 2 articles an hour. This averages out to close to $50/hour, plus I am able to squeeze it into my day, and consider it study time. I dont know anywhere that will pay me $50/hour (I get them every so often)to write from home on a consistent basis!! I think DS has potential for good side income, and encourage anyone with a good background in health to apply for the livestrong section of it. Cant beat $25/article
Comment by Wendy (7 comments.) on 27 January 2010:

Cool and interesting to know that they upped the pay by $5/an article.

Livestrong used to be $20/article.

I agree that when you can write them fast and the rewrites make sense, it’s not a bad deal.

Still, though, the half hour articles can’t be counted on. I do find it makes more sense (and cents) to look elsewhere. Plus, the clips are worth more elsewhere.
Wendy´s last blog ..I Just Lost $2 (and that is okay by me)
Comment by Todd P. on 6 February 2010:

Hi Felicia. I’m Todd. Just discovered your blog a couple of weeks ago and have learned a lot from it. Thank you.

I am a new Demand Studios writer. It’s funny, with only a handful of submissions under my belt, I’ve already experienced some highs and lows. Nothing terrible, nothing elating. It’s simple writing that pays, I need money, so I’ll keep doing it for as long as I need to. I’ve made enough in a week to cover a couple of bills and am sure I’ll do better as I get used to working this way.

Like many writers I’ve known, my brow sometimes furls at my dealings with copy editors. That’s natural. Given that I worked as a professional copy editor for more than a decade, though, followed by additional years as an assignment editor and newsroom manager, I think I have a decent perspective on it.

Good copy editors ought to get ticker-tape parades once a year. If they do their jobs well, few people notice. If they screw up or simply don’t pay attention, everyone looks foolish. One of the most important things I learned as a copy editor was to focus first on catching errors and getting them corrected. Everything else was secondary.

That’s knowledge I conveyed to a lot of less-experienced editors over the years, folks who spent an awful lot of time doing minor, unnecessary sentence reconstructions and missing true mistakes.

Now I’m at the other end of this dynamic, working from home and sending off my work to anonymous editors I’m not allowed to know anything about. My first Demand Studios copy ed was very helpful, setting me straight on some points of style I need to follow for all the how-to articles.

The latest one was an eye-roller. A rewrite notice nitpicked a sentence that used the word “is” twice and a couple other minor things.

Meanwhile, I MADE AN ERROR. My instructions stated, “Repeat steps 1 and 2 if necessary.” I should have said to repeat steps 2 and 3, and this should have been obvious to anyone paying attention.

The mistake was entirely mine, I’m responsible for it. I realized it soon after I resubmitted the article with the requested rewrites, but I couldn’t call it back to fix it and couldn’t contact the copy editor to point it out. So I sent a message to the help desk stating what had happened.

The article was approved with the error, so now I hope to hear back from the help desk soon about getting it fixed.

I’ve also been waiting four days for a copy editor to revisit another article for which minor but justifiable rewrites were suggested. I did the work immediately and sure wish (s)he would wrap up her/his end of things so I could get paid.

I’m certain the copy editors could share plenty of stories about writers, so I’ll restate this: Good copy editors are extremely valuable. I appreciate them and don’t envy them. It’s a tough, unappreciated job that I’d return to only reluctantly.

Thanks again for the blog, Felicia. I think I’ve only skimmed the surface of the valuable information you’ve posted here.
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Comment by Linda (5 comments.) on 23 February 2010:

I just recently was accepted by DS. Are all the titles as incredibly boring as they seem? I am having a hard time finding anything I could write. And so many of the articles seem to be automotive related. I write a lot about dogs and when I put in that as a search word, I come up with a bunch of titles like “How to convert your turbo engine….” Am I missing something here? The articles on eHow that have been contributed by DS are so much more interesting. I really wanted to get on at DS but can’t figure out where the good titles are. Linda
Linda´s last blog ..Jan 21, Dogs, Mostly Mutts
Comment by Felicia on 23 February 2010:

Congrats Linda.

Finding titles on Demand Studios is hit and miss. I just did a quick search since reading your post. There are about 3 pages of dog titles if you are willing to write Fact Sheets (they only pay $7.50 but the word count requirement is much less).

Sometimes you’ll find interesting titles and then there are times like now.
Comment by Morgan (2 comments.) on 23 February 2010:

I’ve been writing for Demand for exactly one week now and the learning curve has been interested to say the least! I certainly have some (fairly minor) complaints about the site, but honestly it has been a lifesaver for me. I have an English degree but live in an economically repressed, backward area where there is NO value placed on the creative arts. I have been underemployed since I got here 2 years ago and unemployed for the last 6 weeks. I heard about Demand, gave it a shot, and so far it has worked out really well for me. I’ve had 10 articles published, no rejects, and several rewrites, most of which were reasonable requests. Right now this is my full-time job. I look at it as getting paid $15-$30 an hour, which is infinitely better than the minimum wage I’d been making in retail jobs. I love working from home, and I look at this as an entry-level position in the career field of my choice: writing. I think that it will eventually lead to more lucrative opportunities, and in the meantime I’m building up my resume and making enough to pay the bills. Just wanted to contribute my $0.02… I’m usually quite the whiner and I could go on at length about the crappy topic selection but right now I’m just so darn grateful for this opportunity!
Morgan´s last blog ..Evening
Comment by Felicia on 23 February 2010:

Morgan, I’m happy for you.

I’m glad you’ve found something to help in your current situation. Demand Studios is just a stepping stone, you’ll graduate eventually.

We all whine about DS, but it does serve a purpose.